Talk:Experience: Difference between revisions

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If you stop getting xp at the max limit, meaning if you have 5xp left to level, and you kill something worth 6xp, you are awarded only 5xp regardless... then level 40 takes a cumulative xp of 8,401,519. I don't want to put this into the table yet because I wasn't sure if it worked that way. [[User:Martavius|Martavius]] 15:06, 27 May 2006 (PDT)
{{Archive box|[[/Archive 1]]}}
 
== Level 46 ==
 
It doesn't fit with the rest of the chart, but I'm looking at what is needed for me to hit level 46.  I currently have 22,318,463 and need 63,656 to hit level 46. - [[User:Snorii|Snorii]] 20:13, 13 July 2006 (PDT)
 
Not sure where those other numbers came from, but yours add up. Found an xp table! -- [[User:Taxibot Yellow|Taxibot Yellow]] 01:46, 23 July 2006 (PDT)
 
== Minor discrepancies ==
 
Interestingly (for some...) at level 11 and 39, the XP rewards for Minions and Lieutenants seem to be swapped. Can we confirm if these points are valid? It may have been a simple data-entry problem?
 
Of course, AVs are by far the best kills/level gained (only ever requiring a maximum of 37.4 even after level 39) whereas the closer to level 50 you are, the less beneficial defeating GMs becomes, closely approaching the same required number of missions after level 39 (plateaus at 167 complete missions for a whole level at level 39) rising fairly smoothly from 65 GMs at level 39 to 150 at level 49.
:Gah! Looked at the wrong trend line on my graph! Missions, not bosses (you need 689 bosses at level 39+ - ouch!) -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 20:49, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
 
== Old table Archive ==
 
These are the base experience reward values for each rank and level of critter, as well as missions. Some of the more difficult critters have a bonus modifier that increases the amount of XP rewarded.
{| border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 style="border: 1px solid; text-align: right;"
| style="background:#ddd; border-right: 1px solid;" |    '''Level'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''Underling'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''Minion'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''Lieut.'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''Boss'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''AV/Hero'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''GM'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''Mission'''   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 1   
| 0   
| 10   
| 22   
| 44   
| 1074   
| 5   
| 10   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 2   
| 0   
| 10   
| 22   
| 44   
| 1074   
| 8   
| 25   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 3   
| 0   
| 10   
| 22   
| 44   
| 1074   
| 15   
| 25   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 4   
| 0   
| 10   
| 22   
| 44   
| 1074   
| 21   
| 33   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 5   
| 0   
| 11   
| 24   
| 48   
| 1170   
| 67   
| 50   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 6   
| 0   
| 12   
| 26   
| 52   
| 1292   
| 116   
| 50   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 7   
| 0   
| 13   
| 28   
| 56   
| 1388   
| 160   
| 75   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 8   
| 0   
| 14   
| 30   
| 60   
| 1504   
| 247   
| 81   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 9   
| 1   
| 15   
| 33   
| 66   
| 1600   
| 315   
| 112   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 10   
| 1   
| 16   
| 35   
| 70   
| 1722   
| 390   
| 100   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 11   
| 1   
| 17   
| 37   
| 74   
| 1818   
| 535   
| 130   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 12   
| 1   
| 18   
| 39   
| 78   
| 1936   
| 625   
| 140   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 13   
| 1   
| 20   
| 44   
| 88   
| 2154   
| 720   
| 171   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 14   
| 1   
| 22   
| 48   
| 96   
| 2366   
| 1000   
| 250   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 15   
| 1   
| 24   
| 52   
| 104   
| 2584   
| 1281   
| 375   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 16   
| 2   
| 26   
| 57   
| 114   
| 2798   
| 1480   
| 500   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 17   
| 2   
| 29   
| 63   
| 126   
| 3132   
| 1818   
| 625   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 18   
| 2   
| 32   
| 70   
| 140   
| 3446   
| 2236   
| 750   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 19   
| 2   
| 36   
| 79   
| 158   
| 3878   
| 2600   
| 875   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 20   
| 3   
| 40   
| 88   
| 176   
| 4308   
| 3190   
| 1000   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 21   
| 3   
| 45   
| 99   
| 198   
| 4856   
| 3840   
| 1125   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 22   
| 4   
| 52   
| 114   
| 228   
| 5410   
| 4680   
| 1250   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 23   
| 5   
| 60   
| 132   
| 264   
| 6054   
| 5600   
| 1400   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 24   
| 6   
| 69   
| 151   
| 302   
| 6798   
| 7200   
| 1575   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 25   
| 7   
| 80   
| 176   
| 352   
| 7660   
| 9000   
| 1775   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 26   
| 8   
| 92   
| 202   
| 404   
| 8638   
| 10000   
| 2000   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 27   
| 10   
| 106   
| 233   
| 466   
| 9718   
| 11000   
| 2250   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 28   
| 11   
| 122   
| 268   
| 536   
| 10916   
| 12000   
| 2525   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 29   
| 13   
| 141   
| 310   
| 620   
| 12208   
| 13000   
| 2825   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 30   
| 14   
| 162   
| 356   
| 712   
| 13740   
| 14000   
| 3175   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 31   
| 16   
| 185   
| 407   
| 814   
| 15464   
| 15000   
| 3575   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 32   
| 19   
| 211   
| 464   
| 928   
| 17400   
| 16000   
| 4025   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 33   
| 20   
| 240   
| 528   
| 1056   
| 19582   
| 17000   
| 4525   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 34   
| 23   
| 272   
| 598   
| 1196   
| 22072   
| 18000   
| 5100   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 35   
| 26   
| 307   
| 675   
| 1350   
| 24870   
| 19000   
| 5750   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 36   
| 31   
| 346   
| 761   
| 1522   
| 28008   
| 20000   
| 6475   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 37   
| 34   
| 390   
| 858   
| 1716   
| 31574   
| 21000   
| 7300   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 38   
| 38   
| 439   
| 965   
| 1930   
| 35596   
| 22000   
| 8225   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 39   
| 44   
| 495   
| 1089   
| 2178   
| 40122   
| 23000   
| 9275   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 40   
| 49   
| 558   
| 1227   
| 2454   
| 45220   
| 24000   
| 10450   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 41   
| 52   
| 629   
| 1383   
| 2766   
| 50944   
| 25000   
| 11775   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 42   
| 58   
| 709   
| 1559   
| 3118   
| 57456   
| 26000   
| 13275   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 43   
| 62   
| 799   
| 1757   
| 3514   
| 64684   
| 27000   
| 14950   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 44   
| 65   
| 901   
| 1982   
| 3964   
| 72920   
| 28000   
| 16850   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 45   
| 71   
| 1016   
| 2235   
| 4470   
| 82230   
| 29000   
| 19000   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 46   
| 76   
| 1146   
| 2521   
| 5042   
| 92716   
| 30000   
| 21425   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 47   
| 79   
| 1292   
| 2842   
| 5684   
| 104522   
| 31000   
| 24150   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 48   
| 85   
| 1457   
| 3205   
| 6410   
| 117832   
| 32000   
| 27225   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 49   
| 89   
| 1643   
| 3614   
| 7228   
| 132866   
| 33000   
| 30700   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 50   
| 92   
| 1853   
| 4076   
| 8152   
| 149864   
| 34000   
| 34625   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 51   
| 92   
| 2090   
| 4598   
| 9196   
| 169016   
| 35000   
| 34626   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 52   
| 92   
| 2357   
| 5185   
| 10370   
| 190534   
| 36000   
| 34627   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 53   
| 92   
| 2658   
| 5847   
| 11694   
| 214884   
| 37000   
| 34628   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 54   
| 92   
| 2998   
| 6595   
| 13190   
| 242368   
| 38000   
| 34629   
|-
| style="border-right: 1px solid;" | 55   
|    92   
|    3381   
|    7438   
|    14876   
|    242368   
|    39000   
|    34630   
|}
 
Archiving the current table in easy to read format. The new data I have doesn't have AV GM etc.
[[User:Catwhoorg|Catwhoorg]] 21:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
== XP per level ==
This is wrong. I did tests (level 35 character, level 33-38 in bricks on Medics, and 35+39-41 in the RWZ on Rikti infantry and guardians.)
 
My numbers are:
 
{| border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" align="center" style="text-align:center"
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''Critter's Relative Level'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''XP Multiplier'''   
|-
| -2 || 0.44
|-
| -1 || 0.55
|-
|   0 || 1
|-
| +1 || 1.35
|-
| +2 || 1.78
|-
| +3 || 2.53
|-
| +4 or higher || 3.2
|-
|}
 
 
Here's the old table:
 
{| border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" align="center" style="text-align:center"
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''Critter's Relative Level'''   
| style="background:#ddd;" |    '''XP Multiplier'''   
|-
| -5 or lower || 0
|-
| -4 || 0.2
|-
| -3 || 0.4
|-
| -2 || 0.6
|-
| -1 || 0.8
|-
|   0 || 1
|-
| +1 || 1.2
|-
| +2 || 1.4
|-
| +3 || 1.65
|-
| +4 || 1.9
|-
| +5 or higher || 2
|-
|}
 
I will not put these changes into the real thing until someone checks them.
[[User:Fulmens|Fulmens]] 16:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
: Update- still under discussion on forums. Argument is that my percentages are "of the XP for a level 35 opponent" rather than being "of the XP for the appropriate level enemy"- so a 39 (+4 to me) would be the XP for a 39, times 1.9.
 
:With a L35 character, I got the same XP for a level 39, 40 and 41 enemy; 1694. That looks like 2.13 times the level 39 enemy's XP.
[[User:Fulmens|Fulmens]] 04:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 
== Historical ==
 
This came up on the forums, someone ran a few tests that demonstrated that the information here is clearly not the case. I've tagged it as historical since I can't think of anything better to tag it with. [[User:CmdrAdeon|CmdrAdeon]] 05:54, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
:I removed the historical tag. Instead, we should work toward making the information correct. {{:User:Aggelakis/Sig1}} 07:01, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
::Which parts need to be updated? --[[User:Eabrace|Eabrace]] [[File:Healthbar notify phone.png|20px|link=User talk:Eabrace]] 14:20, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
:::Primarily the parts on distribution on teams I think. In a [http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=2142802&postcount=29 forum discussion] someone ran a few quick tests in the AE which pretty clearly demonstrate that those rules are wrong. I think that the single player XP values are correct since I was doing some solo play last night and the values I was getting for even level enemies seemed to match. [[User:CmdrAdeon|CmdrAdeon]] 16:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
::::Interesting.  That may actually be a bug.  The tweak the devs made to the system some time ago (I'd have to mine the patch notes to see when) was supposed to set a hard limit on the XP at the value for +5.  Doesn't look like the system is currently working as intended based on the numbers in that thread. --[[User:Eabrace|Eabrace]] [[File:Healthbar notify phone.png|20px|link=User talk:Eabrace]] 20:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
::::Playing with the numbers:
 
::::Assuming a three-member team of 50, 50, and 43 (auto sk'ed to 45) fighting against 52s.
 
::::{|class="wikitable"
|-
|Actual Level||Combat Level||Weight||Min XP||Lt XP||Boss XP||Lvl Mod||Team Mod||Min Mod XP||Lt Mod XP||Boss Mod XP
|-
|43||45||0.68||1198||2795||8386||2||1.5||848.583||1979.791||5940.083
|-
|50||50||1.1||2866||5732||17196||1.4||1.5||2298.770||4597.541||13792.625
|-
|50||50||1.1||2866||5732||17196||1.4||1.5||2298.770||4597.541||13792.625
|-
| ||''AVG''<br />48||''TOT''<br />2.88|| || || || || || ||
|}
 
::::All based on the info in this article, of course.
 
::::What's unclear to me in the linked post is 1) which of the characters was the data collected from (the 43 or one of the 50s?) and 2) what the XP in the data was for (minion, lt., boss, AV, mission completion?)  If the XP numbers in the post are for the 43, those numbers are WAY more than what you should get even for a boss kill, so I might assume that they were for a mission completion.  And if we're talking about mission completion bonuses, the data currently in the article doesn't apply because we don't have the mission bonus XP in the table at the moment. --[[User:Eabrace|Eabrace]] [[File:Healthbar notify phone.png|20px|link=User talk:Eabrace]] 21:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
:::::Well I sent Smurphy a PM asking what parameters he used but for what it's worth a few weeks ago I was leveling my Defender in an 52 AE boss farm and as a level 47-49 was seeing 10K+ XP per kill despite being SK'd to 50 and on full or almost full teams. [[User:CmdrAdeon|CmdrAdeon]] 21:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
::::::Well, to answer unknown #1, it occurred to me about five minutes ago that since the messages were XP/Inf, it would ''have'' to be the 43 since 50s would only see messages about either all Influence or Debt repaid.  Duh. :) --[[User:Eabrace|Eabrace]] [[File:Healthbar notify phone.png|20px|link=User talk:Eabrace]] 22:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 
::::::OK, I've run some quick spot checks with a solo level 29 and here's what I've found so far:
 
::::::{|class="wikitable"
|-
| Source Level || Source || Mission || Rank || XP || Inf
|-
| 29 || Council mob || Newspaper || Minion || 253 || 59
|-
| 29 || Council mob || Newspaper || Lieutenant || 844 || 338
|-
| 29 || Mission Complete || N/A || 2825 || 1413
|-
| 29 || Custom AE mob || AE || Minion || 169 || 59
|-
| 29 || Custom AE mob || AE || Lieutenant || 563 || 338
|-
| 29 || Mission Complete || AE || N/A || 0 || 0
|-
| 30 || Council/Rikti mob || Newspaper || Minion || 379 || 89
|-
| 30 || Council/Rikti mob || Newspaper || Lieutenant || 1261 || 505
|-
| 30 || Mission Complete || Newspaper || N/A || 3811 || 1906
|-
| 30 || Custom AE mob || AE || Minion || 253 || 89
|-
| 31 || Rikti mob || Minion || Newspaper || 504 || 118
|-
| 31 || Rikti mob || Lieutenant || Newspaper || 1680 || 672
|}
 
::::::Observations:
::::::# According to the base XP table, an even level minion should be worth 169 XP solo in a normal mission.  In reality, they're ringing in at 253 XP.  This is a boost by a multiple of approximately 1.497.
::::::# According to the base XP table, an even level lieutenant should be worth 563 XP solo in a normal mission.  In reality, they're ringing in at 844 XP.  This is a boost by a multiple of approximately 1.499.
::::::# Even level AE minion XP matches the value listed in the base XP table.
::::::# Even level AE lieutenant XP matches the value listed in the base XP table.
::::::# According to the bonus tables, a +1 mob should be worth 1.2 times the XP of an even level mob when solo in a normal mission.  In reality, they are ringing in between approximately 1.494 and 1.498 times the base XP of an even level mob.
::::::# According to the bonus tables, a +2 mob should be worth 1.4 times the XP of an even level mob when solo in a normal mission.  In reality, they are ringing in between approximately 1.991 and 1.992 times the base XP of an even level mob.
 
::::::Conclusions so far:
::::::# Base XP numbers may be correct for AE missions.
::::::# Base XP numbers are definitely not correct for normal missions.  They are higher than currently recorded.
::::::# Base XP in AE missions is less than base XP in normal missions.
::::::# Bonus modifiers for relative spawn levels are definitely not correct.  They are higher than currently recorded.
 
::::::Guessing:
::::::# Bonus modifier for relative spawn level of +1 is probably supposed to be ~1.5.
::::::# Bonus modifier for relative spawn level of +2 is probably supposed to be ~2.0.
 
Interesting data. The tricky thing to check is going to be the grouping bonuses, I'm not sure how best to test those. I heard back from Smurphy, he confirmed the data was from level 52AE bosses. [[User:CmdrAdeon|CmdrAdeon]] 16:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 
:Well, in order to test the grouping bonuses, we'll need to start with a mission that can be reset.  (I usually try setting the mission on heroic/villainous to prevent notoriety settings from throwing off any calculations, but in this case it shouldn't matter as long as the setting stays the same throughout testing.)
 
:First, we'll need to establish a baseline for mob XP.  The mission owner will need to enter solo and defeat a few mobs, noting the relative level (should be even or +1 if on heroic/villainous), rank, and XP rewarded for each mob.
 
:After defeating a few mobs, the character will need to exit and reset the mission.  We then need to add another character of the same level to the team.  Making the second team member the same level as the first gives us a team bonus without changing the average level of the team and bringing the weight factors into the equation.  We can now enter and defeat a mob to compare the XP earned while teamed with the XP earned solo.  This will give us the teaming bonus for a team of two.
 
::''team bonus'' = ''XP teamed'' / ''XP base''
 
:Adding more characters of the same level will give us the teaming bonuses for three, four, five, six, seven, or eight.
 
:Testing weights will definitely be a little more complicated.  I thought I had a good method in mind, but as I was laying it out, it seemed more complicated than it did in my head, so I'll have to re-think that. --[[User:Eabrace|Eabrace]] [[File:Healthbar notify phone.png|20px|link=User talk:Eabrace]] 14:48, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

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