Talk:Con System

READ AND OBEY

SIGN YOUR TALK PAGES ~~~~ --Konoko 16:03, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Extra emphasis mine (and done for humor, just so we're clear.) That being said, I think I've managed to get the right names associated with the comments where I broke it up to make all of this easier to read. Apologies if I've misappropriated any of them. --Eabrace 03:09, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Color Chart

As far as layout, the page looks a little wonky now. The color bars are too darn big, take up too much of the page, and are too much "in your face". I'd recommend you shrink the width of the color table and it's cells, add words for each color at the far left with color backgrounds (or colored words with black background -- not sure which would look better), then put the conning screen shot images next, then description (get the color out of the description -- too much color!). In addition, I'd reverse the order of the con colors in the table so that AVs are on top and underlings at the bottom. It fits better with the notion that AVs are at the top of the heap and are "higher" rather than lower in power level. I know what I suggest is not exactly like the official descrption in the COH manual, but this isn't a NcSoft or Cryptic web site, and technically to do it like them is a copyright infringement. Also I miss the old descrption of the con colors. They weren't the "official" descption, but they were more or less accurate and funny to boot. Can you add those back, and also keep the official description as well? I don't recall what the old desriptions were (although I remember purple being "Mommy!" and white being "Should be a mediocre fight"). :( --Blackspectre

Con Total	Color	Arrows
(-4)	Dark Grey	None	No XP award. Good for hunt missions or venting.
(-3)	Grey	3 Down	What Positron says.
(-2)	Green	2 Down	Green like grass. Mow as such.
(-1)	Blue	1 Down	Dangerous in large groups.
(+0)	White	None	Should be a mediocre fight.
(+1)	Yellow	1 Up	Most characters will handle these just fine.
(+2)	Orange	2 Up	Bring a friend.
(+3)	Red	3 Up	Bring several friends.
(+4)	Purple	None	Need a few of at least two of healers, tanks, and Awakens.
(+5)	Purple	None	... mommy ...

--Konoko 16:03, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Notes on the Color Chart(s):

• I'd never actually noticed the differentiation between the two shades of gray before. Went specifically looking for examples tonight and now that I'm aware there is a difference, it's easy for me to see it. Updated my tables in the manual to reflect this. Since I updated it there and it's been copied here, I updated it here as well.
• Now that there are two gray lines, we'll definitely need differentiating text. (Source of all the text I currently have in there is the CoH manual, BTW. The manual only shows one shade of gray. Perfect example of why I want an online version of the manual that we can correct where it's wrong or out of date.)
• Whatever direction we go in, I would recommend excluding numbers from the Color Chart and leaving those for the Rank Chart. --Eabrace 03:09, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Excellent screen shots, BTW. I really like that addition! --Blackspectre

That was Eabrace's doing. I like it too, keep them but make the table smaller

Yes, by all means. Then I can steal ideas from whatever you do to make them smaller.

I'm very visually oriented, so if I can't actually put my hands on something, pictures are the next best thing to help me pick up concepts faster. I can't retain information very well just by reading a pages and pages of text. As such, I like to illustrate documentation for people who think the same way I do. --Eabrace 03:09, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Duplicate Conning Chart

Someone added a duplicate conning reference chart. Uh... kinda overkill really. We don't need 2. Delete one. Also, I'd recommend you put the conning reference chart at the bottom of the page because it combines both rank and level. It's a little out of sequence to put it before the idea of rank is introduced, and is likely to confuse people, IMHO. Also the colors in the big reference chart should be brightened up and in bold so you can see the colors better. Compare with my chart at the bottom. --Blackspectre

Combine them at your discression(sp?) --Konoko 16:03, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

EB Con Rank Bug?

I have sent a PM to _Castle_ for confirmation that the fact that Elite Bosses con as +2, the same as regular bosses, is a bug. It makes sense that it is, after all Elite Bosses are more powerful than regular bosses and less powerful than AVs. However, in a previous discussion with _Castle_, he was under the impression that EBs con as +5, the same as AVs. IMO, EBs _should_ con as either +3 or +4, but which one do we use? One of the charts uses the notion that EBs are supposed to con as +3. How does the author know this? Where's the documention that proves EBs are supposed to con +3? Until confirmation is offered, I think we should just leave EBs as they currently con, i.e., +2 (since there's so much conflicting information out there about this). A note could be added that it makes more sense for them to con as +3 or +4, and the current con color may be a bug. And besides, I doubt the conning system will get any luv from the devs anytime soon, if ever. Might be best just to show it as is is. --Blackspectre

Aye, been showing it as is, noting where one would think it would be different (like EB's being tougher and should con higher). --Konoko 16:03, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Next time I run into an EB (could be tonight since I'm running the Tina/Maria arcs with my Controller at the moment), I'll try to remember to verify the color on the EB vs level. I know Antimatter was red last night, but didn't check to see if he was a +2 or a +1. --Eabrace 16:47, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Checked. Verified that EBs and Bosses con the same. Very counterintuitive. Modifed my tables and the one here (since its copied from mine.) --Eabrace 03:09, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Editing Flurry

Ok, in all honesty I'm surprised that I feel a little unfomfortable seeing this page that I worked so hard on to edit yesterday significantly changed today. However, I can imagine the person who edited this page after me feeling disapointed if I re-edited it... so I'm just going to let it lie. I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Feel free to use my suggestions above, as I really do think they would make the page better. Good luck. --Blackspectre

I made most of this article back when I was a wiki newb and pulled most of the 'data' from my in game experiences. It was then updated and updated again, and updated, and again updated. Then you updated it, and then something Snorii did shortly before the DOOOOOM weekend was re-added. I agree that the table is big for this article. As Snorii's edit comment said, they copied it from Eabrace's 'living game manual'.

I, for one, will NOT feel uncomfortable if you edit the article and recreate it as you see fit. I'm swamped at work and won't be able to work on this until later, so you get a head start ;) --Konoko 16:03, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Me either. I'd be really happy if I could just link directly to here with minimal need for explaining the system in the living manual. Saves me some typing. I just couldn't find the thing to save my life when I first put the tables in the manual together. (Really, the manual is just my way of helping those who might come after me come up to speed faster.) --Eabrace 03:09, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Archvillains and Heroes

What is the rank for AV's and Heroes? Their articles say +5, this article says +4. --Konoko 12:14, 20 February 2007 (PST)

Monsters

"This includes Monsters that are NOT spawned inside of instanced missions. "
An exception to this is Sally. - Snorii 14:29, 5 April 2006 (PDT)

I've seen Sally spawn as low as level 27, though not sure of her high end. --StarGeek 16:24, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

>.> Sally really shouldn't BE monster class, she's exempt from the perma purple, is one shotable with BRAWL, and is a kind and gentle thing ^^, never attacks anyone. I honestly feel bad hitting her when I try to get the badge <.< the devs probably should have given her a special class or something. --Sleepy Kitty 08:23, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

http://BryanWilliams.com/Sally_Level.jpg

Those Notes on General Conning Errors

Critters spawned from Rikti Portals often have a con +1 that of normal. - That's been that way as long as I can remember. The Communications Officer (Minion) spawns a Portal (Object - equal to Lieutenant) and the Portal then spawns Minions that are evenly matched not to its level, but to its Con rating, making them +1 to the Communication Officer.

Malta Auto Turrets con as Lieutenants, even though the Operation Engineer that put it there is a Minion. - Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is true for almost all Pets, isn't it? When DE spawn Emanators (Pets) they Con equal to the Lieutenants that spawned them, don't they? When Tuatha or Legacy Chain summon Animate Stone it cons as a Lieutenant with the same level as the summoner, doesn't it?

. . . and a Viscious Rikti Monkey (underling) will con blue (-1 level for rank). - Actually, they're technically conning as "Small" right now. This apparently ranks them equal to Lieutenants.

--Eabrace 15:04, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

EB and rikti portal screenshots

DISCUSSION ABOVE

Elite Boss

stay tuned

Rikit Portal

Character: level: 49

Foes: level: 47

Screenshot: Training Room: I10 testing: Rikti War Zone

Communications Officer: regular: con color: green: (-2 minion)

Conscript: portal spawned: con color: blue: (-2 minion)