Talk:Dual Blades

NOTE

Do not update the article with the tables below until I11 goes live. The powers need updating though, have at those! --Konoko

Power Tables

Greydog made a suggestion below, and I've added it to the power tables to see how it looks. While keeping Pythe's original combo tables might be redundant, some players might be able to understand the combos better in that format, myself included. My vote is to keep both. --Konoko 18:36, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Hm... they just don't seem wordy enough. Added words. --Konoko

Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...--GreyDog 20:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I'll second that, I like this one. The only thing we're missing is what the effect of each combo is. That, I figure, could easily be summed up where the current table exists with a simpler table or bulleted list. -Pythe 11:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)

The Combo effects are relatively short, eg. "+Damage", what about an extra row under the header with that information? -Doctor Magus 12:18, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Layout

Hrm... with the new Wikia skins and 1280x1024 resoultion, this is what the DB article looks like with the new tables laid out below. --Konoko 28 November 2007

That's pretty easy to fix with a clr. Aggelakis 00:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

All GIFs, approx. 150KB each

• Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Scrapper.gif

  Top of page, TOC squishes Scrapper table

• Dual Blades layout 1280x1024 Brute.gif

  lower down, TOC not a problem

• Dual Blades layout 1600x1200.gif

  1600x1200, not a problem

• Dual Blades layout 1440x900.gif

  1440x900, minor annoyance

Scrapper (original table)

Power	Level	Effect
Nimble Slash	1	Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).
Power Slice	1	Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).
Ablating Strike	2	Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.
Typhoon's Edge	6	Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).
Blinding Feint	8	Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.
Confront	12	Ranged, Foe Taunt
Vengeful Slice	18	Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.
Sweeping Strike	26	Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).
One Thousand Cuts	32	Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).

Scrapper (with combos)

Power	Level	Effect	Weaken {{{Effect1}}}	Empower {{{Effect2}}}	Attack Vitals {{{Effect3}}}	Sweep {{{Effect4}}}
Nimble Slash	1	Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).	1	1
Power Slice	1	Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).				2
Ablating Strike	2	Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.	2	2	1
Typhoon's Edge	6	Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).	3			3
Blinding Feint	8	Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.		3
Confront	12	Ranged, Foe Taunt
Vengeful Slice	18	Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.			3
Sweeping Strike	26	Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).			2
One Thousand Cuts	32	Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).				1

Scrapper (alternate text)

Power	Level	Effect	Weaken Foe -ToHit -Def	Empower Self +Damage +Acc	Attack Vitals Cone +DoT	Sweep PBAoE +Knockdown
Nimble Slash	1	Melee, Minor Damage (Lethal).	Begin	Begin
Power Slice	1	Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal).				Continue
Ablating Strike	2	Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal), Foe -Defense.	Continue	Continue	Begin
Typhoon's Edge	6	Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal).	Finish			Finish
Blinding Feint	8	Melee, Moderate Damage (Lethal) Self +Damage +Accuracy.		Finish
Confront	12	Ranged, Foe Taunt
Vengeful Slice	18	Melee, Moderate Damage(Lethal), Foe Knockdown.			Finish
Sweeping Strike	26	Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).			Continue
One Thousand Cuts	32	Melee (Cone), Superior Damage (Lethal).				Begin

GreyDog's out-of-his-gourd idea

This is a tricky concept to get across. Personally, I find the Power Name/Icon confusing, in isolation. They only way I really get a sense of a power is seeing it in the context of the whole powerset. So, an ideal chart for me would look something like this... --Greydog

Powers	Weaken	Empower	Attack Vitals	Sweep
Nimble Slash	1	1
Power Slice				2
Ablating Strike	2	2	1
Typhoon's Edge	3			3
Blinding Feint		3
Confront
Vengeful Slice			2
Sweeping Strike			3
One Thousand Cuts				1

I could be out of my gourd, however. Feel free to ignore my comment if I'm in the minority.--GreyDog 17:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

No no no, nothing is ignored if it gives someone a ridiculously brilliant idea. Observe: The Power Table section is supposed to give a concise yet meaningful list of powers. Your table could be tacked on to the end of each power table. --Konoko 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Alternate presentation

Combined Combo Table

This seems reasonable, if hard to read. Perhaps seperate each combo into its own table? Or color each main rows alternately? -Pythe

Still hard to read with colors. Comments? -Pythe

While I like icons, I'd rather have the names there, but Tanker/Scrapper/Brute is a little too wide. --Konoko 20:12, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I find this the easiest one to read and distinguish between Combo orders for the ATs, I'd re-arrange the Combo Names so they were alphabetical, but that's just me. --Mekk

I find this one the easiest to read as well. - Snorii 21:37, 20 November 2007 (EST)

I like this table (below). I also like the "Scrapper Alternate" above out of the three in the previous section. --Ti Taz 13:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Combo Name	Effect	Attacks
Empower	Self +Damage +Acc (less than Build Up)	Nimble Slash	Build Up
		Ablating Strike	Assassin's Blades
		Blinding Feint	Placate
Weaken	Foe -ToHit, -Def	Nimble Slash	Sweeping Strike
		Ablating Strike	Power Slice
		Typhoon's Edge	One Thousand Cuts
Attack Vitals	Cone Minor Damage over Time(Lethal)	Ablating Strike	Power Slice
		Vengeful Slice	Nimble Slash
		Sweeping Strike	Vengeful Slice
Sweep	PBAoE Damage(Lethal), Knockdown	One Thousand Cuts	Build Up
		Power Slice	Assassin's Blades
		Typhoon's Edge	Ablating Strike

Separate tables

I used class="wikitable" to get the general table formatting (thin borders, grey backgrounds on headers). Comments? Suggestions? --Konoko 02:00, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Looks much better like this. I'm still questioning my use of colors in the tables. At the very least they ought to be changed to a paler hue, like the blue in the nav bar. Now to add a little more detail to the combo effects! -Pythe 14:42, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm thinking about combining the combo attack tables... I'll throw an idea at the bottom here, after I sketch it out here... -Pythe 15:13, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Brute, Tanker, Scrapper

Combo Name	Empower	Weaken	Attack Vitals	Sweep
Effect	+Damage (Like Build Up)	Enemy -ToHit, -Def	Cone Minor Damage Over Time(Lethal)	PBAoE Minor Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
Open	Nimble Slash	Nimble Slash	Ablating Strike	One Thousand Cuts
Continue	Ablating Strike	Ablating Strike	Vengeful Slice	Power Slice
Finish	Blinding Feint	Typhoon's Edge	Sweeping Strike	Typhoon's Edge

Stalker

Combo Name	Empower	Weaken	Attack Vitals	Sweep
Effect	+Damage (Like Build Up)	Enemy -ToHit, -Def	Cone Minor Damage Over Time(Lethal)	PBAoE Minor Damage(Lethal), Knockdown
Open	Build Up	Sweeping Strike	Power Slice	Build Up
Continue	Assassin's Blades	Power Slice	Nimble Slash	Assassin's Blades
Finish	Placate	One Thousand Cuts	Vengeful Slice	Ablating Slice

Error in combo for Stalker?

I am running a DB/Willpower Stalker currently and am noticing that the Attack Vitals combo is Power Slice, Nimble Slash, and Vengeful Slice, while listed here as beginning with Ablating Strike. --??

O RLY? No wonder my Attack Vitals combo doesn't work. I'd have figured this out if I hadn't wasted all my vetspecs. Fix it (or I will someday) --Konoko

Ok, fixed... Shall I do the main page? --Omnedon 02:23, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Not yet, leave the article as it is for now. I'm still fleshing out the other tables. Keep this table up-to-date though, then we can update the article all at once when I11 goes live. --Konoko 21:30, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Konoko, are you planning to update these now that I11 is out? I was getting rather confused looking things up in Mids Hero Designer, looking at this page, and reading the little info boxes on my DB/Nin stalker. –- Ti Taz 12:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Combo terms

We need to make sure the same term is used every time that a term is used. Discuss! --Konoko 21:44, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Term	Alt	Meaning
Opener	Open, Begin, start	Power that open/begins/is-the-start of a combo
Bridge	Continue, mid	Power that continues a combo
Finisher	End, Finish	Power that ends/completes a combo
Orange Combo Indicator Circle	Orange Circle, duck l'orange	Indicator that appears on a power (in the power tray) to indicate which power is next in a combo.

I say we go with: Opener, Bridge, Finisher. The complete and verbose description for the circle would be "Orange Combo Indicator Circle," or "Orange Circle" for short.--GreyDog 10:24, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Right-o --Konoko